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Rocko1 Posts: 596
3/22/2021
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I am planning an overnight to Rabbit peak second week in April and trying to limit the weight carried. Plan is to make it to Rabbit, camp, head back first thing in morning. I am trying to figure out the best water strategy. 1) Carry what I think I will need the entire time. 2) Deposit a liter at multiple set locations on the way up to be recovered on way back. Any suggestions?
Water use estimate will be 9L for entire trip.
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dsefcik Administrator Posts: 2622
3/22/2021
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#2 Probably leave a couple of drops along the way up if you are certain you will come back down the same way.
You know yourself and water needs best however.
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http://www.sefcik.com
http://www.darensefcik.com
http://www.carrizogorge.com
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Rocko1 Posts: 596
3/22/2021
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dsefcik wrote:
#2 Probably leave a couple of drops along the way up if you are certain you will come back down the same way.
You know yourself and water needs best however.
Thanks Daren. You figure just burring under some rocks off trail 10 yards or so will suffice? I have heard of animals chewing through plastic to get to water. Not sure how quickly that happens or if it's a summer thing.
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Scooter Posts: 114
3/22/2021
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Rocko1 wrote:
dsefcik wrote:
#2 Probably leave a couple of drops along the way up if you are certain you will come back down the same way.
You know yourself and water needs best however.
Thanks Daren. You figure just burring under some rocks off trail 10 yards or so will suffice? I have heard of animals chewing through plastic to get to water. Not sure how quickly that happens or if it's a summer thing.
I agree with Darren to leave water on the way up. We have started off carrying a half gallon water bottle. Drinking that as you go up. Then leaving it on the side of the trail for the way our. I would highly recommend staying the night before at Arroyo Salado so you can get an early start the next morning. Even if you arrived at the campground really late.
We have also spent the night on Villager and done Rabbit the next morning and hiked out that day.
Enjoy !
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Rocko1 Posts: 596
3/22/2021
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Scooter wrote:
Rocko1 wrote:
dsefcik wrote:
#2 Probably leave a couple of drops along the way up if you are certain you will come back down the same way.
You know yourself and water needs best however.
Thanks Daren. You figure just burring under some rocks off trail 10 yards or so will suffice? I have heard of animals chewing through plastic to get to water. Not sure how quickly that happens or if it's a summer thing.
I agree with Darren to leave water on the way up. We have started off carrying a half gallon water bottle. Drinking that as you go up. Then leaving it on the side of the trail for the way our. I would highly recommend staying the night before at Arroyo Salado so you can get an early start the next morning. Even if you arrived at the campground really late.
We have also spent the night on Villager and done Rabbit the next morning and hiked out that day.
Enjoy !
Thanks. I have done Villager before as a day hike. Will leave pre-dawn for sure. Is there decent room at Rabbit for a few tents? Going with 3 others.
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Buford Posts: 456
3/22/2021
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There is enough tent space on Rabbit for tents. Lots of trees so it should be somewhat wind protected. It is a big flattish area for the summit. The views from the Rabbit summit area itself are not great unless you walk out to an edge.
Option 2 is probably best for water. Hauling 9L all the way up sounds miserable just to carry some back. Ensure caches are out of site from people. I think critters are less likely an issue for a single night. Everyone goes through different amounts of water.
One other water strategy: day hike it. That way you have less water weight and gear weight to worry about. Travel lighter and faster but you’ll miss the sunrise views from the ridge.
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Links to my photos: ABDSP photos, Bighorn sheep photos, ABDSP time lapse video, Wildlife photos (mainly birds)
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dsefcik Administrator Posts: 2622
3/22/2021
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There is room for tents. You will probably see tons of water already stashed and abandoned. I have seen some with duct tape covering the bottles and others just left out. Unlikely they would get chewed thru in one night but burying would not hurt.
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http://www.sefcik.com
http://www.darensefcik.com
http://www.carrizogorge.com
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dsefcik Administrator Posts: 2622
3/22/2021
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Schad's book suggests (if I remember correctly) spending the night at Villager and day hiking to Rabbit. Agree with Budford for the views.
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http://www.sefcik.com
http://www.darensefcik.com
http://www.carrizogorge.com
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Rocko1 Posts: 596
3/22/2021
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dsefcik wrote:
Schad's book suggests (if I remember correctly) spending the night at Villager and day hiking to Rabbit. Agree with Budford for the views.
Thanks. I will prob. try to push to Rabbit first day as the thought of going further out and back seems daunting rather that just returning.
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Buford Posts: 456
3/22/2021
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Supposedly the ridge between Villager/Rabbit is a lot of up and down. I did a non standard route and missed this part. Depending on how you feel, hauling overnight gear through that roller coaster may be tough after lugging it up to Villager in the first place. I think that is why Schad's book mentions day hiking from Villager. Some people don't mind hauling extra weight around.
Cached water can freeze if left exposed depending on the expected temps during your trip. I found a beer/water cache on the Santa Rosa ridgeline a few years ago that froze and blew up.
Hopefully the Rabbit summit register ammo can still has some of the cool surprises people have left.
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Links to my photos: ABDSP photos, Bighorn sheep photos, ABDSP time lapse video, Wildlife photos (mainly birds)
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DHeuschele Posts: 87
3/22/2021
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I’ve stashed water dozens of times in deserts and have yet to have animals noticeably mess with the water. This includes in the fragile gallon jugs.
The camp location I use is at the descent just prior to villager. Next day is short hop to villager, then the roller coaster to Rabbit and then return to camp, pack, and descend. I do this to minimize carrying the camp gear, carried camp gear is never carried down to subsequently be carried up, it is a good campsite location, it starts day 2 with a descent. Note I usually start late on day 1. Day 2 is slightly long, but all uphill is without the backpack.
Good luck
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Rocko1 Posts: 596
3/23/2021
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DHeuschele wrote:
I’ve stashed water dozens of times in deserts and have yet to have animals noticeably mess with the water. This includes in the fragile gallon jugs.
The camp location I use is at the descent just prior to villager. Next day is short hop to villager, then the roller coaster to Rabbit and then return to camp, pack, and descend. I do this to minimize carrying the camp gear, carried camp gear is never carried down to subsequently be carried up, it is a good campsite location, it starts day 2 with a descent. Note I usually start late on day 1. Day 2 is slightly long, but all uphill is without the backpack.
Good luck
That's a good strategy and If going alone I may push to do day hike. I am going with some others that wouldn't be able to do accomplish that. Goal was to finish day 2 in as little time as possible-that's why the goal of Rabbit on day 1.
edited by Rocko1 on 3/23/2021
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rockhopper Posts: 668
3/24/2021
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I would do DHeuschle's plan. If you absolutely want to do a sun rise on top of Rabbit, do a headlamp start under the stars or moon light closer to the summit. I day hiked Rabbit from the Barton canyon route on the East side with a climbing buddy. One quart of water each in the winter.
Rain over Villager/ Rabbit yesterday 3-23-2021
edited by rockhopper on 3/24/2021
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Rocko1 Posts: 596
3/24/2021
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rockhopper wrote:
I would do DHeuschle's plan. If you absolutely want to do a sun rise on top of Rabbit, do a headlamp start under the stars or moon light closer to the summit. I day hiked Rabbit from the Barton canyon route on the East side with a climbing buddy. One quart of water each in the winter.
Rain over Villager/ Rabbit yesterday 3-23-2021
edited by rockhopper on 3/24/2021
Not a bad idea. I can't imagine doing that kind of gain with only 1q water.
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tekewin Posts: 368
3/24/2021
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rockhopper wrote:
I would do DHeuschle's plan. If you absolutely want to do a sun rise on top of Rabbit, do a headlamp start under the stars or moon light closer to the summit. I day hiked Rabbit from the Barton canyon route on the East side with a climbing buddy. One quart of water each in the winter.
A friend and I did the Barton route in May 2019. One quart for Rabbit? Wow. I think I drank 2 gallons, but we came down a different ridge below Villager. A ridiculous loop I don't recommend.
To OP: I vote with DHeuschele to camp at or below Villager. There are two bumps between Villager and Rabbit that add a few hundred feet of gain, but at that point, you are going to be tired and it feels like a lot more. Same with the final push to Rabbit.
It's awesome, though. Have fun!
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Buford Posts: 456
3/24/2021
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The longer you carry your overnight gear and water, the longer you can delay the decision about where to camp or cache it for later. Don't carry it down anything you don't want to haul it back up 
I am always surprised at the different amounts of water people go through for the same hike. Hiking together at the same time and pace some people need way more or way less water than others. I could believe 1qt on the right day.
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Links to my photos: ABDSP photos, Bighorn sheep photos, ABDSP time lapse video, Wildlife photos (mainly birds)
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rockhopper Posts: 668
3/24/2021
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Buford wrote:
The longer you carry your overnight gear and water, the longer you can delay the decision about where to camp or cache it for later. Don't carry it down anything you don't want to haul it back up
I am always surprised at the different amounts of water people go through for the same hike. Hiking together at the same time and pace some people need way more or way less water than others. I could believe 1qt on the right day.
Correct. It was in February and cool. We tanked up with water before we left and ate oranges and apples. This was back in the 1987 before hiking poles. I was still in my 20's doing triathlon's and such. I traded extra water weight for a heavy SLR camera with attachments. It was one of the toughest day hikes I have ever done. If you based camped on the east side of the mountain it would be far easier and shave off around 3.5 miles one way for a easterly climb.
edited by rockhopper on 3/26/2021
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Rocko1 Posts: 596
3/25/2021
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Buford wrote:
The longer you carry your overnight gear and water, the longer you can delay the decision about where to camp or cache it for later. Don't carry it down anything you don't want to haul it back up
I am always surprised at the different amounts of water people go through for the same hike. Hiking together at the same time and pace some people need way more or way less water than others. I could believe 1qt on the right day.
That is true. If it was just myself I would probably push to Rabbit and camp some place on the way back. I am also thinking barring weather this would be a good place to try out cowboy or bivy camping to lighten my pack.
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rockhopper Posts: 668
3/25/2021
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I still like DHeuschele's plan the best. You are correct about the weather. If you guys are flexible you could pick a weather window. Good luck with Rabbit.
edited by rockhopper on 3/26/2021
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Rocko1 Posts: 596
4/9/2021
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tekewin wrote:
rockhopper wrote:
I would do DHeuschle's plan. If you absolutely want to do a sun rise on top of Rabbit, do a headlamp start under the stars or moon light closer to the summit. I day hiked Rabbit from the Barton canyon route on the East side with a climbing buddy. One quart of water each in the winter.
There are two bumps between Villager and Rabbit
Would there be a few spots in this section for tents?
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rockhopper Posts: 668
4/9/2021
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Rocko1 wrote:
tekewin wrote:
rockhopper wrote:
I would do DHeuschle's plan. If you absolutely want to do a sun rise on top of Rabbit, do a headlamp start under the stars or moon light closer to the summit. I day hiked Rabbit from the Barton canyon route on the East side with a climbing buddy. One quart of water each in the winter.
There are two bumps between Villager and Rabbit
Would there be a few spots in this section for tents?
Rocko1,
Yes there are flat spots along the ridge route. This one is alongside the trail below Villager. I day hiked Villager and Rabbit but this is where I would camp if backpacking Rabbit. This spot comes with a kitchen with a view. Mile high peak beyond. Happy trails to you.
edited by rockhopper on 4/9/2021
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Rocko1 Posts: 596
4/9/2021
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rockhopper wrote:
Rocko1 wrote:
tekewin wrote:
rockhopper wrote:
I would do DHeuschle's plan. If you absolutely want to do a sun rise on top of Rabbit, do a headlamp start under the stars or moon light closer to the summit. I day hiked Rabbit from the Barton canyon route on the East side with a climbing buddy. One quart of water each in the winter.
There are two bumps between Villager and Rabbit
Would there be a few spots in this section for tents?
Rocko1,
Yes there are flat spots along the ridge route. This one is alongside the trail below Villager. I day hiked Villager and Rabbit but this is where I would camp if backpacking Rabbit. This spot comes with a kitchen with a view. Mile high peak beyond. Happy trails to you.
edited by rockhopper on 4/9/2021
Oh that is supreme!
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