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kylekai Posts: 82
1/21/2014
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Last weekend we decided to travel up Olla Wash. After exploring the Mud Palisades, we travelled down about a mile and saw a great spot to camp. It was off the road, over a berm, and onto a flat area. There was already a fire ring with some dried Yucca plants around for fire wood. And all illegal! As inviting as it was to camp there, we camped just off the road, right near the entrance to this illegal campsite.
After dinner and a few beers, about 8PM, we hear someone drive up. I notice the driver walking around with a flashlight, along the illegal trail, to our truck camper. He knocks on the door, and tells me we're blocking his way into the illegal campsite, and could we move. Yeah, right. I said no, and he said he could probably drive around me. I then told him it was illegal to camp over there, and we got into a bit of an argument. I said it was against the park rules, and damages the environment. He scoffed and said something like the Jews in Germany were doing things against the law, was that illegal? Wow, great comparison. After a bit more arguing, my wife came out and asked the guy to leave, which he did.
Anyone else ever have situations like this? I tried to destroy the illegal campfire and put some rocks over the trail to the site (that's when I took the pictures). Was I overreacting, or would you do the same?
Location of where we camped:
Looks better after I put some rocks over the access trail:
I kicked the camp fire rocks and dead Yucca plants around to discourage further camping.
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anutami Posts: 491
1/21/2014
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Wow! Never had anything like that happen before. I think you totally did the right thing. Ranger Steve frequents the area and would have told him to move anyway. I can't fathom someone having the nerve to knock on your camper door and tell you to move your leveled camper at 8pm when there are thousands of other stellar campsites all over the place! Olla wash is one of the least visited areas of the park and people camp out there to get away from rude and thoughtless people like that. Congrats on holding your ground and hope it didn't ruin your trip or put a sour taste in your mouth on such a spectacular area in the park. That drive into olla wash is my favorite areas of the park!!!!!
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kylekai Posts: 82
1/21/2014
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We were about a mile from the nearest other camper, and this guy wants to park 30 feet from us, besides illegally camping. Naw, he didn't ruin our trip, but I might have ruined his!
edited by kylekai on 1/21/2014
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Buford Posts: 456
1/21/2014
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That sucks. People seem to think they can do what they want since it is only the desert.
Last weekend on Villager Peak I was surprised to find some well used fire rings and the few trees near them obviously scavenged for wood to burn. There isn't much up there to burn.
In Blair valley a couple months ago the ranger came by every campsite to check for metal fire containers. This was after earlier in the day a different ranger busted some people for doing donuts in the dry lake bed in their trucks and shooting off rockets and fireworks.
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Links to my photos: ABDSP photos, Bighorn sheep photos, ABDSP time lapse video, Wildlife photos (mainly birds)
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+1
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surfponto Administrator Posts: 1364
1/22/2014
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Awesome. You handled that perfectly.
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https://www.anzaborrego.net/
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ziphius Posts: 911
1/23/2014
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Attaboy! 
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http://www.coyotelearning.org
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hikerdmb Posts: 423
1/23/2014
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Amazing that someone would want to camp right next to you when there I are so many places to camp. Nicely done trying to cover up the spot. Once we were backpacking in Organ Pipe and a couple started setting up really close. My buddy started making loud moaning and groaning sounds and the people moved on out of sight and out of sound range too.
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dsefcik Administrator Posts: 2622
1/24/2014
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Can't say I have that happen before but it does not surprise me, it seems like the majority of people think the desert is someplace they can do whatever they want, that there are no real regulations they have to follow. Over New Years someone actually drove right into the middle of the Morteros Village site and camped out. They moved many rocks to make a campfire against a cupule/mortero boulder and basically ruined it with soot and broken edges from throwing the rocks at at. They also got the vehicle stuck and dug out a huge midden area in the process.
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http://www.darensefcik.com
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anutami Posts: 491
1/24/2014
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hikerdmb wrote:
Once we were backpacking in Organ Pipe and a couple started setting up really close. My buddy started making loud moaning and groaning sounds and the people moved on out of sight and out of sound range too.
LOL! I am going to use that tactic if it ever happens to me.
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kylekai Posts: 82
1/24/2014
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dsefcik wrote:
Over New Years someone actually drove right into the middle of the Morteros Village site and camped out. They moved many rocks to make a campfire against a cupule/mortero boulder and basically ruined it with soot and broken edges from throwing the rocks at at. They also got the vehicle stuck and dug out a huge midden area in the process.
I wish there was something that could be done when that happens. I'd hate for the park to limit off-road camping due to a few idiots that vandalize the park.
About 5 years ago while hiking around the north end of the park I saw some vehicles about 100 meters from the trail camping in an area that I was sure was off limits. At the end of the trial I saw a ranger and told her what I saw. She took a look for herself and reported back that they were illegally camped and destroyed a lot of vegetation in the process. Unfortunately they left by the time the ranger got there or she would have cited them. She asked what kind of car they had, etc., and if she saw them she'd approach them. At that time I wish I took a picture of the cars, as that would have helped her a lot. Now I carry my iPhone whenever I hike and take a picture of anything suspicious so I have something to show a ranger. The iPhone also geotags the images, so that helps in locating the area. When I was arguing with the person I mentioned in my first post, I told him if he camped in the illegal spot I would be taking a lot of pictures of him when he sets up camp. He didn't like hearing that and I think it helped get rid of him.
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rockhopper Posts: 668
1/24/2014
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Agree. I always respect "parking" areas within the park. I do my "off road" truck camping outside the park boundrys to the North , South and East.
edited by rockhopper on 1/25/2014
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DHeuschele Posts: 87
1/25/2014
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Not to be ignorant and definitely not to justify the fire pit, camping so close, being a ass, etc. but what made it an illegal camp spot.? Was it that they drove off road?
My worse back country experience was in the Sierras. My nephew and I were sleeping at some seldom visited alpine lakes when some Yahoos came in to setup camp ~100' from us. Of course they were loud and for longer than I hoped for when I had not bothered to get up and tell them to keep it down. When I woke up in the morning I found our firewood had been hauled to their site and mostly burned. I was still thinking the best of them and that they had not seen us. However when I went to retrieve our breakfast from the counter balance the stick I had used and left propped against the tree immediately below our food was gone.
I went to their "camp" and there was my stick on the fire. They were camped in their bags by the fire with their food right next to them. I was peaved and woke their asses up. They were apologetic and indicated they had not seen our tent initially when they made all the noise. I then asked about why used my wood and one of the 2 indicated they had not but the other remained silent (so one was probably innocent but definitely not both as the wood was gone). Then I asked about the counter balance log which I had fetched from a few hundred yards away. They indicated they had not seen the food until after the log was on the fire. I asked did they think the only long stick around had just happened to be propped against a nice big tree and had not considered someone left it there for a reason. They then tried to attribute it to the 10 mile hike in last night. I asked where they had come from and it was the TH we had come in on which was nearly 6 miles (I can see being off 1 or 2 miles out of 6 but ...).
I lectured them on everything they had done that was rude including not properly storing their food. I told them that they were the rudest people I had yet to encounter in the back country.
The entire time my teenage nephew had stayed silent in the tent. He enjoyed telling my Dad (his grandpa) how I had woken and ripped into the Yahoos.
edited by DHeuschele on 1/25/2014
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kylekai Posts: 82
1/25/2014
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DHeuschele wrote:
Not to be ignorant and definitely not to justify the fire pit, camping so close, being a ass, etc. but what made it an illegal camp spot.? Was it that they drove off road?
That's a good question, and one reason why I made my original post here. I attributed it being illegal to several factors: illegal campfire (a rock fire circle), burning the local vegetation, and a nearby sign that said something like "vehicles must remain on the road." I know the park states that we should camp only in previously camped areas, and maybe one could argue that since someone drove off road, it's now legal? Or maybe it's like that that one congressperson, forgot his name, commenting on pornography, said something like "I can't describe it but I know it when I see it." To me the site looked illegal and illegally accessed.
-Bill
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Borregolinda Posts: 69
1/25/2014
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From the ABDSP website-
Some Basic Rules to follow:
- pull your car one full car length off the road
- no off road driving (that means stay on the dirt roads)
- no ground fires (bring a large metal container, fire pit & wood for the fire)
- carry your ashes out
We participate in the Adopt A Wash program here in the park. The biggest clean ups we do are illegal fire pits. We have Coyote Canyon and Arroyo Tapiado. We spend more time removing rocks and shoveling out the ashes and coals than most anything else. Thanks for doing the right thing! But please be careful confronting someone as well!
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+1
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DHeuschele Posts: 87
1/26/2014
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So the fire pit was illegal as was the wood but the campsite was illegal only if driven to (off road)? If they walked to the "campsite" and did not use the campfire pit or wood then it would be a legal campsite?
As I understand the ABSP camp rules they are quite lenient for back country camping. No camping at water source or artifact sites. Leave no trace which implies no damage to vegetation and if you build a wind block when you leave it should be impossible to tell.
Loosely related no ground fires and bring your own firewood. I was once told that the fire container should not have the fire part on the ground but there is no enforcement (I.e. Pie pans do not meet the container rules but the ranger will typically inform you of the rule but not make you go without the fire - when backpacking I think they know requiring to carry more than pie pan and duralog is too much (duralogs are heavy)).
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dsefcik Administrator Posts: 2622
1/26/2014
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Pretty much what Borregolinda stated. "Camping" can be anywhere (where there are not any signs indicating otherwise), your car though can only be one car length off the road. So in this scenario they could have parked their car one car length off the road and walked over to the "illegal" spot and camped.
As Borregolinda said, confronting people out in the desert can be problematic, it is usually better to just take indiscreet notes of license, description, etc and report to park rangers.
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http://www.carrizogorge.com
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