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rockhopper wrote:

What Rocko1 said is exactly correct. Many desert trails are thousands of years old and still exist in areas of low erosion.

Is the compaction of soil from years of foot traffic what caused plants not to grow on the paths?

I appreciate the confidence in my knowledge...but I am no expert and IMHO anyone that claims to know what the glyphs actually represent is probably just guessing from their own perspective. Other than the obvious human and animal motifs, take in some datura and think away.....

The radiating circle motifs are common and I have seen many that have leading/trailing ends that connect to other adjacent motifs. Just get out and find the petros/pictos and enjoy from your own perspective and research what you find if you feel motivated, I enjoy the exploration and discovery but will not claim to be highly educated on their meanings.

Scooter wrote:

Wow, I am impressed. Did you see any signs of the old native American trail ? Great trip report. Thanks for sharing

There were definitely sections where the worn trail was obvious and occasional cairns. But it would fade in and out, so we weren't always on it.

I remember you telling me that you looked for the crossing while you were doing a traverse of the crest. I did see a couple cairns at the top that would mark the starting point for descending the ridge to Rockhouse. Didn't think to get a pic of that, unfortunately.
edited by Brian on 2/21/2022

rockhopper wrote:

Great trip report! Here is a 1959 map which shows the trail to Martinez creek based on 1927 data but oddly doesn't show the S.R.I.R. I have hiked up from the East a little past the Jack miller cabin several times and hiked up from the S.R.I.R. on the west up the ridge trail but never have completed the middle section but is on my list to do. :-)

Rocko1 and I were talking about doing a similar thing - doing sections of the trail a little bit at a time rather than all at once. I'd like to do a section starting in Martinez Canyon and going up to the ridge, as you have done. This last one did a number on my feet so I may have to wait until next season to do more.

Which trail are you talking about that goes up from the west? I've driven up to Toro, so I know about the road and the Sawmill trail, but it sounds like you're talking about something else? We were wondering whether the reservation ever gives hikers permission to pass through.

I have found a few cameras over the years, one had owner info inside the battery area and the others I looked at the photos and never gave any info to the owner. I would say if someone can contact you and identify the photos that would be enough proof of ownership.

Wow! Just fantastic stuff up here. I am going to have to explore this. You ever have issues leaving your car where you do?

That's impressive GE research as well as impressive hiking. I've done the top part of the Cactus Spring trail as far as Cactus Spring and I've done Martinez to the Miller Cabin and back, but never that section that connects them. I have a few questions.

How was the section with the reeds in Martinez? That really slowed me down on the way up but was quicker on the return when I had figured out the best way to get through. But I could imagine it being a problem if the growth got any thicker.

The dry spring you mentioned with the cat's claw and seasonal camp - is that Agua Alta spring?

When you encountered the 20' dry fall, is that along the route that would be marked on a map as the trail, or were you off trail there?
edited by Brian on 4/7/2022

Magnificent trip. With that many miles, I'm surprised your water lasted.


I could barely make out your satellite circle. I do like exploring via Google Earth and heading to interesting places. I don't do that enough.

Thanks for sharing!

rockhopper wrote:

Tommy750
Neat story about your rock circle search and finding it. It is always different on the ground. The same for my rock circle search. The "mystery ring" picture above sure looked man made. About 60 foot in diameter. On the ground is barely discernable. Seeing old charcoal poking thru the sand made me think it was a ceremonial gathering site for rituals perhaps. Too big for a roasting pit?

btw I remember your trip down Agua Alta. Thanks for the repost. Enjoyed it. Cheers.

Does the charcoal from roasting pits last for multiple centuries?

rockhopper wrote:

To Add: So nice to see the sky island of Jeffrey pine, Ponderosa pine amongst other Conifers on the Southern Bench photo. They looked healthy. Hope they can hang on. I need to go there someday!

I called the ranger the day before to confirm the gate was unlocked. Really great area. I commented to Brian while walking through the pine meadows-'you know what you don't see many of? Dead trees'. What was there looked pretty healthy. But as with everything-better go see it sooner than later.

I was shocked at all the cairns leading to the southern edge of the bench-there are quite a few old ones and trails that are choked, we struggled in a few spots. Seems to be 3 'routes' going south-dead center on the ridge and to the east and just west of center. These converge about 1/4 mile before the bench drops onto the crest.

If you haven't been up there I suggest a trip-Even for a day or so. Park near the end of the road and explore the bench.

Nice trip. Domestic dog skull. Not telescoped like a coyote and has a steep forehead.

Brian wrote:

I know hurricane Kathleen wiped out part of the line in that area in 1976. I wonder if it was the same spot.

This area is part of the line was taken out by Kathleen.

Nice find, Rockhopper. We did not find any water below the site. I came up the wash from below and climbed to the top of the white rock dry falls and did not see any water but didn't actually wade through the reeds and catclaw. Yoks crossed over to the mining adit on the other side of the stream bed and didn't see any water either. Think Yoks found some mining claims above the Alamo Canyon site.

Rockhopper, were you able to find any mining activity in either canyon? It seems someone went through a lot of trouble to build that path and rock houses and not have some sort of sizeable mining activity. Thanks for the pics!