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Wow, that's the biggest piece of pottery I've seen. You almost had the whole olla! Great puddle too. How deep was it? I salivate over desert water. I was adding up all the water that I found in morteros this week and figured I could have extended my trip by a day if I had harvested it all.....

We didn't make it that far.
I may hike up that way again this coming Sunday.
How far back is the waterfall? We veered off the the left up a side canyon at one point.
Bob



tommy750 wrote:

Did you make it all the way up Nolina to Pinyon Mt.? There's a nice approximately 30ft dry fall somewhere back there that's really pretty. Tom

edited by surfponto on 1/2/2013

Just got back last night from Superstition area, and long story short-I couldn't find the marker again. I didn't put it into the GPS/Phone and figured I could find it. No luck after driving and walking all over the area for an hour or so. It was getting very cold and the wind and rain was starting, so we gave up (for now) but I put it in the GPS this morning
FYI it rained hard on us Sunday night and on the way back home (monday) there was still snow on the north facing slopes directly across from the In-Koh-Pah offramp. Never seen that before


DRT Lakeside wrote:

You are correct, there definitely was a cross with the 12,7,13,18 around it, but those were the only numbers we were able to remember, and my crummy pic did not help. I hope to grab a better picture, rubbing or something this weekend. I will definitely let you know if you have the hang of the Township stuff.
Dave

tommy750 wrote:

DRT Lakeside wrote:

Great trip and photos. I would love to check out that area as well. Nice to know about the gate as well. Maybe I could paint the samurai in USBP livery and mosey on through....though I fear that might only add one more to the # of bullet riddled vehicles out there.
Nice info on the Land Office marker as well. We found one near Superstition Mt. on Thanksgiving, and could only figure out that it was the corner of 4 sections, with a ton more marks on it. Now the mystery may be solved. I finally got ahold of the (bad) photo I took with my dads flip phone and it seems I only got a part of the marker in the photo. &quotLand Office&quot is there but no #s in the pic. We are going out to that area this weekend and I will try to find it again if it is not covered in blowing sand.

I'm going to go out on a (short) limb and say your marker will have a cross with S12|S7 on top and S13|S18 below and above the cross T14S R10E. If it doesn't, I still don't have the township thing figured out

Paul Remeika should put you on commission! I went ahead and purchased a copy

Nice TR David, I still want to do an Alma Wash/Harper Cyn backpack trip...anybody interested?

Found this link to a story about Miller's that indicates it closed in the early 70s. Would like to confirm though. I was bummed that they were getting ready to tear it down soon........until I read the date on the story

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2003/mar/20/prehistoric-gas-station-eyesore/

Wow, your pics are crystal clear. The puppy sign caught my eye because of the 789 phone number. It just happens to be a Ramona number of which I have a 789 number as well. Can't say I know Lettie, but if I run into her I will go and tell her where to find her sign. I wonder why a ramona person would put their sign anywhere near there????

@tommy750

Looks like your photo links are broken, I wanted to know if the Survival book was any good.

I periodidally check the SDMTS board meetings regarding the SD&AE railroad because there is a section that gives updates for the "Desert Line" which was the Carrizo Gorge Railway. There was a meeting on January 15th, and there is or was a speaker who is trying to expose PIR who obtained the rights to the railway from SDMTS. (Sorry for the complicated scheme, not sure how to simplify it). At any rate, apparently there could be some litigation, and hesitantcy from people dealing with PIR because of past activity. For example the former President of Carrizo Gorge Railway was sued by the widow of Junior Seau. The whole relevance of this has to do with if there will be any future railroad activity. I personally think it would be great if there was railroad activity although it would get in the way of hiking there. But in the long term the railroad would be maintained (and I'm worried about the Goat Canyon Tresle), and help business in San Diego. It also might some day provide passenger service, and I would like to some day ride on the railroad.

Here is a link to the meeting notes, you can figure it out yourself. If you need more information let me know (due to the sensitivity of the subject, it's sort of vague in public posts).

http://www.sdmts.com/MTS/documents/2013-1-15SDAEPKGFORMAILOUT.pdf

Did a one-night camp near Dos Cabezas. Hiked around the Indian Hill area on the first day. Set out for Mortero Palm Canyon the next morning, with Goat Canyon Trestle as our goal. Thick ground fog east of Octotillo in the morning, howling coyotes in every direction, mild temps. Fun trip.

On the way to Dos Cabezas Spring:

edited by ziphius on 1/28/2013
edited by ziphius on 1/28/2013

Hi Tommy
Daren, Mary and I found another cave further up with a few dark pictos. Hard to find. In fact when I was out there a year later I couldn't locate it.



Bob

That might be it. Have no info except a general area. Need to get out there again. That's an interesting pictograph. Looks like a globe with lat/lon marked out. Tom

tommy750 wrote:

The Carrizo shaman cave is a great site and I'm glad you visited it. Was at an archaeology meeting a few months ago and met an old timer who told me there's another cave upstream. Forgot to bring his map when I was last out there January 27 and never found his site. Regarding the overpainted figures, they've been noticed since at least Treganza's report in 1942:

Tom, you mention someone visitied the Shamans Cave, but which is the Shamans cave? that's the cave I'm looking for near the palms. Can you help with the location? Are you speaking of the cave near the palms or where the carrizo pictos are?

Thanks
Larry
edited by sddarkman619 on 3/7/2013

Gorgeous photos Tom and it looks like a great trip. I've come home with ticks that I find 2 days later, eeeeeek! I've found that storing your camp clothing in the freezer overnight DOES kill them.

Hi, thought I'd share these-- hope the links work...

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/-484ZKf17AmK08pzW-5_JtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/7Z5gd-ONU5YyIPQ5Jo9tikVECuu_4yzOrEFIoluDC5E?feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kuGT59_OelW93ZYW2XKvtNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

Couple more from the In-Ko-Pah mountains looking east towards Carrizo mtn

Very educational and beautiful Tom. I'd be interested in seeing a KML outline of the ancient lake boundary as viewed from GE. Or is it just portions / fragments that appear to be visible? - Jim

Fascinating! Thanks for posting, with all your excellent (as usual) pics and descriptions. That's an area waaaay beyond my range, so I'd never see it but for your report.
Dan

Very educational and beautiful Tom. I'd be interested in seeing a KML outline of the ancient lake boundary as viewed from GE. Or is it just portions / fragments that appear to be visible? - Jim

Tom, were you able to find the "bathtub" rings on any boulders on the ancient water line?

Tom,

This is Fish Creek Beach and Dunes, "Ancient Beach Line" extensive long term Cahuilla village site, still hundreds of shards, chip and flake throughout the area. When I first started visiting, 1966 or 67, there were still metates and manos buried in the dunes, picked up a few beautiful wonderstone (rhyolite) and agate arrowheads mostly laying on the mud flats. I theorize bow fishing and waterfowl.

I do not know how far West you made it but it looks like your photos are just past the Gyp railroad trestles? where Fish Creek and Carizzo wash join?

What an amazing area!
Very cool that the fish traps are still there.

I really need to check that out.

Thanks for posting that Tom

Bob

Wow! I can't imagine being out there with a fresh water lake. 1877? Is that real?
Here is what was going on then

Jan 8th - Crazy Horse and his warriors fight their last battle with the United States Cavalry at Wolf Mountain (Montana Territory).

Jun 17th - Indian Wars: Battle of White Bird Canyon - the Nez Perce defeat the US Cavalry at White Bird Canyon in the Idaho Territory.

Aug 12th - Thomas Edison invents Edisonphone, a sound recording device

Nov 21st - Tom Edison announces his "talking machine" invention (phonograph)

Great stuff Tom...not sure how you have so much time out there but great to read your trip reports..keep it coming..thanks!

Great photos and tour Tommy. What camera are you using? That digitate petroglyph took a moment to take form for me. Thanks for finding my jeep, forgot where I had parked it.

Incredibly interesting and surealistic photos, how out of touch I am, did not know base was shut down and abandoned, now another place I have to go. I have not see photos of the traps that well done. Shame about the graffiti, last time I drove through grapes were being planted up and over sand dune behind Travertine rock, so much is being lost

Tom,

The photos are from a month or two ago, while I was out photographing wildflowers. The area has changed greatly since I first saw it, heavily used for offroad, drive right through the old camps, full on morons. The area is semi closed now, vehicle travel on established trails only, almost no one goes there anymore. I usually fill a 30 gal trash bag everytime I visit and could continue until I am dead and never make a dent. Sad

When I camped there we would be gone all day, to Carrizo Stage Station following the Overland Stage route on West to Palm Ssprings and back, or the Superstions, or shell beds NW of Plaster City

Well enough, rememberances, doubt you could make that run with Rangers in the Air now

I am thinking of buying the Survival Skills of Native California book, any of you reading this have any reviews/comments?

On the Cahuilla Desert, ABF is bringing it into the park, area North of Ocatillo Wells Vec Rec to about Traverntine Rock and from the San Diego / Imperial County Line East to Salton Sea. Truckhaven hills area, TMIReservation, Wonderstone, Rosa's etc

http://www.scahome.org/publications/proceedings/Proceedings.08Laylander.pdf

There are no trespassing signs on the roads going to the buildings. I hiked around them to get to the palms and the historic marker location. Along the old road down the middle it is nothing but sections of shooting debris left by thoughtless target shooters. I have been there twice when Border Patrol agents were putting undocumented folks into their vehicles.

Space Cowboy wrote:

There's a historical marker for the old stage coach station up at the Desert View Tower. I suspect they moved the marker from its original spot to there when they put in the freeway. Although, I remember seeing the marker/monument there as early as 1964. The freeway wasn't completed yet, I don't think, but maybe someone was thinking ahead.

Now, does anyone know what's going on at Mountain Springs, the town, I mean. Its one of the few ghost towns that I know of with its own interstate off-ramp. I would love to walk through there. Some of those structures I remember being a bar and store in the '60's.
edited by Space Cowboy on 4/9/2013

Great pics. That trail looks like it took you up to a nice area and some very interesting stuff. Good find. Red Rock and Barrett Canyons are great places.

Great stuff Tom, I enjoy reading your trip reports and photos. Great subject, post all you want, it is inspiring and makes me want to head out that way. Some of those circles looked pretty small, almost uncomfortably small to sleep in....hard to tell though from the photos.

I agree, please post more on Lake Cahuilla! You gave a great history of the area in these last couple of posts. Few of us make it that far east, so this post is like water for thirsty desert explorers. - Jim

Fantastic map of 1761. Great trip. Thanks for sharing.Those first rock circles look like fish traps. I love the rounded beach rock photo. Definately a pot drop right there!Those miners were a tough bunch. Looks like they gave up too!
I've traced the ancient shores line(s) on Google Earth and on foot over the years. From articles out there on google searchs the lake has been filling and evaporating for hundreds of thousand of years. Taking about 50 years to go dry. The high water mark has changed over time due to the pull apart basin and tectonic uplfting. It is a very interesting area indeed! Some more photos to add in.







One of many caves near shoreline




edited by rockhopper on 4/15/2013
edited by rockhopper on 4/15/2013

tommy750 wrote:

I usually open up the front door and look outside. Very accurate. Oh, that's right. You guys live on the coast with all that FANCY temperate weather

Ok, it is agreed that we all call Tom for weather updates before heading out! Just post your cell phone number here Tom and you will be hearing from us! Jim

Must be nice having your office so close!!! Is that in el centro?

dsefcik wrote:

Good stuff Tom.....thanks for more amazing and great info.

Yeah great stuff!!! Camel bones are amazing. Ash? Would have never guessed, how on earth did they come to that conclusion? Did the ash accumulate in the shallow sea and accumulate as stagnate water or was it before the shallow sea? And before a freshwater lake.... The area has soooo much history. Thats why I love the place!

Unfortunately this was the xterras last trip. I did it before I got the tahoe....still regretting it since it was my wife and I first big purchase

Thank you for the photos and the info. Are the panels locked up - I assume the caretaker unlocks them during the day?
Is there anyway to see more of the panels than the few they have on display [like hire a local guide?], etc.
Thanks, Tommy, very nice display.
Don Liponi

So is where you went largely a passable road in a regular 4wd truck? I have wanted to go out that way but was not sure of the "roads".

So what's your take...real or fake..??

tommy750 wrote:

Are there any wildlife guzzlers for sheep out there? Or is that not a feasible solution here in the Colorado Desert? Tom

There are, several of them. A couple have dried up also and another that is very large had just a little water left.

Thanks to Borrego's golf courses and citrus the water table has been dropping fast. Mark Jorgensen told me several years ago this affects the parks water supplies. That's just lovely, wealthy white guys can knock a ball around and growers make money and the plants and animals can suffer.

It was flowing pretty good around Fish Creek on Sunday.


edited by BorregoWrangler on 7/22/2013

tommy750 wrote:

Here's a video of Ocotillo activist Jim Pelley driving some Ocotillo Wind access roads during the recent storm. Pretty amazing footage. Tom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gtEdOm9d38

That is an amazing video!!!!!

Check out the parks website on how the mighty ocotillo copes with the summer rain!

http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=638

I have a new respect for the desert in the summer months!!! I think we will have to plan a summer trip soon!!!!

Nolan (anutami) wrote:

Check out the parks website on how the mighty ocotillo copes with the summer rain!

http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=638

Sam had just sent me that photo, he is also a volunteer at the VC, he is a god guy.

Have a look at this video from souther Utah

Now, that is an amazing video. Would be a little harder to pull off here since the upper watershed is not that far away but I would love to try it! Tom